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Mahathir on race, the West and his successor
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Originally published December 9, 1996
Seated behind an imposing desk and flanked by two computer
terminals, Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad met recently in his
Kuala Lumpur office with TIME Asia editor Donald Morrison, Hong
Kong bureau chief Sandra Burton and correspondent John Colmey.
Excerpts from the interview:
TIME: How has Malaysia changed in the years since you became
Prime Minister?
Mahathir: What has changed is the speed of the change.
TIME: Have the people changed as well?
Mahathir: They responded well, once I got them to understand
what was holding them back. Principally there was a lack of
confidence, a wrong focus. The Malays were thinking far too much
about their inability to compete with the Chinese, and the
Chinese felt that if they submitted to certain policies, they
would lose their identity or their advantage. So we had to
change their mindsets.
TIME: Can Malaysia's experience teach other countries how to
preserve harmony in a multi-racial society?
Mahathir: It is possible it can be applied to the ex-communist
countries, where the situation is somewhat like that of the
indigenous people here. For 70 years the Soviet Union had a
command economy with no entrepreneurs, no private capital, no
management know-how. Suddenly you tell them to enter the free
market. We [in Malaysia] had a peasant economy, and peasants do
not understand money. We had to train them to understand that
money can be used as capital to make more money so that everyone
will gain. We didn't want to have a redistribution of wealth in
the communist way, where you impoverish everyone. We wanted to
make sure the Chinese and Malays were equal, not by having the
same amount of money but making sure there would be rich Malays.
That way the Malay rich will have something in common with the
Chinese rich, so they won't think so much about race.
TIME: Doesn't that depend on keeping the economic pie growing?
Mahathir: Yes. We have to continue to come up with new ideas.
For example, in 1985, we found our economy not doing so well, so
we allowed for 100% foreign investment. Then we thought the
economy might slow down. So we decided on privatization, and
that stimulated the growth. Now we see the electronics industry
on a downtrend, so we are going to multimedia to bring it back
up. We have come up with more new ideas than most other
developing countries.
TIME: You recently said that efforts to assimilate races have
not been successful and it was time to try something else.
Mahathir: The idea before was that people should become 100%
Malay in order to be Malaysian. We now accept that this is a
multi-racial country. We should build bridges instead of trying
to remove completely the barriers separating us. We do not
intend to convert all the Chinese to Islam, and we tell our
people, the Muslims, "you will not try to force people to
convert."
TIME: Do you feel that you have been treated fairly by the
Western media?
Mahathir: Frankly, no. We have succeeded more than most
countries after independence, and yet they keep harping on this
so-called lack of press freedom. But even that I dispute. No
press is free. If I speak at the U.N., it is totally blacked
out, even though what I say carries some sense. The Western
press acts as a censor. It publishes what it thinks is fit to be
published. Aren't there other people with equal wisdom? People
like us, for example?
TIME: Will your proposed Multimedia Super Corridor help remedy
that problem?
Mahathir: The Internet is much more equitable. If you say
something on the Internet about me, I can reply on the Internet.
TIME: You're not worried that the Internet will bring bad
influences into the country?
Mahathir: I'm worried. People who put pornography on the
Internet are committing crimes. The world should create certain
standards for the Internet. But we also realize that the ability
of the government to vet things is diminishing.
TIME: In cases of alleged corruption in Malaysia, such as the
Carrian affair, the Bank Negara affair and now the Perwaja case,
why is no one brought to justice?
Mahathir: Until there are proven wrongdoings, you cannot just
hold a person up for the public to defile him, curse him and
spit on him. In our country, where the law is based on the
British system, a person is innocent until proven guilty.
TIME: And if someone is guilty?
Mahathir: Someone will take the rap. We have removed people in
the government many, many times, but it has not been announced.
Some have been put in cold storage, and they have stayed there.
TIME: Have you put any restrictions on your children's business
dealings?
Mahathir: I have placed restrictions to the point that they
become very angry with me. I cannot stop them from doing
business. If someone wants to give them something on the basis
of having my name, he's stupid. Unless of course he thinks the
person he is dealing with is capable.
TIME: Should the children of leaders be prohibited from doing
business with the government?
Mahathir: I think as far as it is possible, they should not have
dealings with the government. If they do, the father should not
have any involvement. But to say they can't do any business with
the government at all becomes very difficult when a lot of
business in any country involves the government in some form or
another.
TIME: Are you satisfied with Anwar Ibrahim's leadership
qualities, and is he prepared to step into the top job now?
Mahathir: His qualities are okay. I think he can step into the
job if for some reason I should drop dead or become disabled.
TIME: Do you think that some of his supporters are too impatient?
Mahathir: Well, that is a normal human reaction. If your man is
up there, you want to get something out of it. It becomes a
great fault if you go out of your way to destabilize things in
order to get your man in. But that is not happening.
TIME: What role would you like to see the U.S. playing in Asia?
Mahathir: America has often enough repeated that it doesn't want
to be the policeman of the world. At the same time it keeps
insisting that it should be here in the Pacific to keep the
peace, to ensure that China and Japan don't impose their will on
the rest of us. If I'm asked which one I would choose, I would
say it is not right for America to pose as the policeman of the
world. In the first place it is not capable of that. In the
second place a policeman has to make value judgements, and
sometimes they are faulty. For example, we saw massacres carried
out in Bosnia. Yet no action was taken. Meanwhile, the slightest
move on the part of Iraq brought severe reaction. If you see a
policeman who acts differently against different people, then
you lose confidence.
TIME: But things can get out of control in a region with
competing powers like China and Japan.
Mahathir: Does it help to have an American warship in between? I
don't think so. Because everyone knows the U.S. will hesitate to
act. We cannot be convinced that if we have a problem the U.S.
will step in and very firmly say, "No, you don't fight each
other, and if you do we will bomb you."
TIME: If the U.S. won't, who will?
Mahathir: Let's give the U.N. a chance to function. We are
willing to contribute to a world force that is given the weapons
and the means to settle problems, one that doesn't just withdraw
when things get difficult and say: "We are there for peace
keeping, not peace enforcing."
TIME: Why do you allow American planes to refuel and resupply in
Malaysia?
Mahathir: The money is good [he laughs].
TIME: Contrary to what you say about the U.S., you are a
cooperative partner.
Mahathir: We are not at war with America. We do business with
America. If I hear American planes are on their way to bomb
Palestinians, then we might hesitate. But cooperating with the
U.S. does not go against our general policies. So why not?
TIME: Are all the dams, tall buildings and new cities we see
going up in Malaysia merely monuments to Mahathir?
Mahathir: I really don't need any monuments. These [structures]
are necessities, and they are necessities that we can afford.
TIME: But you do seem to be in a hurry.
Mahathir: I am in a hurry. I have always been in a hurry. I have
always worked fast, I have always worked hard. I don't think I
should waste time. I don't know how much longer I have. I am
already 71 years old.
TIME: Southeast Asia has some very strong leaders who have
helped their countries perform economic miracles. How do you
explain that?
Mahathir: I think it has something to do with the culture of the
people here. All of us believe in government, and all of us know
that in order to achieve things you have to have the authority
to do them. Without authority, nothing can be done.
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