Anwar vows to continue pushing for political change. CHRISTOPHER BROWN--SABA FOR TIME

Just two days after he was sacked as Deputy Prime Minister, Anwar Ibrahim sat on the floor of his study with TIME correspondent John Colmey and reporter David Liebhold to present his side of events. Outside his unassuming home, scores of admirers chanted his name; inside, friends trooped in, offering support. One retired minister hugged Anwar and advised him to "have courage." During the interview Anwar's wife, Wan Azizah, sat supportively beside him. Although he was expecting arrest at any moment, Anwar projected a relaxed mood, laughing easily.

TIME: The authorities appear ready to charge you with various crimes. How can you defend yourself?
Anwar: I don't plan to fight the specific charges. They are all fabrications. This is a political battle.

TIME: You've said there is a conspiracy against you. Why haven't you mentioned Mahathir's name?
Anwar: Before the UMNO Supreme Council meeting [Sept. 3], I wanted to impress upon him that he could still show he wasn't personally involved. I have been convinced all along, but I wanted to give him that opportunity. He did not respond.

TIME: When sexual allegations against you first appeared in a "poison pen" letter a year ago, you suspected they came from the PM's department. Why didn't you sue?
Anwar: Because he said: "Why do you need to respond to this, no one will believe it." I didn't imagine that it was part of a long-term political plot.

TIME: What happened to cause the fallout between you and Mahathir?
Anwar: The relationship was solid, but I think I made my views and my vision of society known to too many people.

TIME: When did you realize things had gone sour?
Anwar: After he came back from his two-month vacation in July 1997, about the time the letter appeared. I thought, "How is it his closest confidantes can do this to me and he still condones it? He said to me: "I should have told them off, I should have asked them to resign." But nobody was punished.

TIME: Is it true that Indonesian President B.J. Habibie urged you to challenge Mahathir?
Anwar: Not quite. He told me, while I was in Canada [in May], "Anwar, as a brother, please take care. My problem is that it is too difficult to disassociate myself from Suharto. You must be careful not to be too closely linked to Mahathir. Don't repeat the mistake that I made."

TIME: So, did you then decide to challenge the Prime Minister at last June's ruling-party convention?
Anwar: No, no. I did tell the Prime Minister: "You have to accept the fact that the undercurrents are strong. You stay, but some adjustments have to be made. People are talking about reform and accountability. Why not? Why should you be defensive?" It was a sincere comment, but he took it wrong.

TIME: Mahathir was upset by the convention's opening speech, in which the youth wing leader called for an end to corruption and nepotism. Did you O.K. the speech or write it?
Anwar: The speech was a much more watered-down version of the one he wrote. But I did say some type of message must be sent. Otherwise UMNO would become completely irrelevant.

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