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Foreign Minister Surin Pitsuwan. PETER CHARLESWORTH--SABA FOR TIME
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Surin: "Because of the Crisis, We Are Prone to Conflict"
Thailand's Foreign Minister Surin Pitsuwan caused a stir in June when, at a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, he challenged the region's tradition of non-interference. Instead, he proposed a new policy of "flexible engagement" that would allow member states more leeway in commenting on each other's affairs. In an interview with TIME Bangkok bureau chief Tim Larimer last week, Surin defended his position and talked about the new tensions in Asia. Excerpts:
TIME: Southeast Asia has become a volatile region. How is Thailand coping?
Surin: For once Thailand is an island of stability, by default. It is not Thailand as a country that is at stake, it's the approach, it's the philosophy of openness, of transparency, of discipline, of staying within the system rather than opting out of the system. So if Thailand fails, it will have a negative repercussion for those who are looking for a way out of this crisis.
TIME: By promoting openness and transparency, are you sending a message to Prime Minister Mahathir in Malaysia?
Surin: It is obviously recognized that there are different approaches. Thailand is willing to adopt one. Others countries, for their own peculiar situations, have adopted other models. I'm not sending a message to anybody, but I'm sure it's being observed by many, the way in which we are handling our problems.
TIME: Meanwhile China and Vietnam are congratulating each other that socialism has shielded them from the economic crisis.
Surin: In the end, it's what approach will prepare each society better to face the inevitable onslaught of globalization, the tsunami of civilization. Thailand decided to strengthen its internal mechanisms and systems to face that tsunami. Others have adopted the measure of closure, building up dikes against that tsunami. Inevitably, all of these countries and economies will have to engage with each other. The only way is to be transparent, to be open, to be disciplined. Thailand has been following this road of economic and political development, of market economics. At some times in our history we have been regarded as unstable, as noisy, as a bit chaotic. Experience has proven we have gone through that period intact, and right now, ready to take off again. Other countries are now talking about reformation--reformasi--adjustment, restructuring. We have gone through that period. Now our system can weather any pressure, whether it's economic, political or social. That is the advantage of having adopted this model earlier than others. Centralization, control, a top down model of development could work only for a certain period of time. Growth cannot provide legitimacy forever. In the end, it's free participation, equal participation, which will lead to fairer distribution of the fruits of growth. That will be the source of legitimacy.
TIME: There has been a lot of squabbling going on in Southeast Asia. Is an era of regional solidarity over?
Surin: We are going through a tough period of adjustment, precisely because there is so much diversity in the region, from one absolute, centralized state, to one extremely open and pluralistic state. You cannot expect the membership to synchronize on everything they do.
TIME: Is the new motto of ASEAN "Every man for himself"?
Surin: The way out of this crisis is more solidarity within the grouping. All of us are turning inward, trying to fend for ourselves, becoming a bit suspicious of outsiders. Closed societies would be reluctant to accommodate external resources. So differences in approach would lead to tensions between countries, which have been pushed beneath the carpet in the past and are now resurfacing. So precisely because of the crisis we are in, we are prone to conflict.
TIME: Is this going to trigger a military build-up in the region?
Surin: No two democracies ever go to war, ever go into open conflict. I don't think open conflict is a prospect for the near future. We have a momentum of cooperation from the past 30 years. The danger is you cannot ride on that momentum for too long. My generation is hoping we can be inspired by a vision of the future, a more open, more peaceful, more integrated Southeast Asia.
TIME: You started a debate this year by promoting "flexible engagement "within ASEAN countries. Isn't that meddling?
Surin: Some are practicing it far beyond my original suggestion or expectation.
TIME: Did Philippine President Estrada go too far in criticizing Malaysia?
Surin: The danger is to regard such an expression of concern as coming from an adversary, rather than from a neighbor or well-wisher. Precisely because we have grown together for so long. What is that phrase Rex Harrison used? I've grown accustomed to your face. Because we have achieved so many landmark agreements together, when there is this diversity in dealing with problems, you feel that something is amiss, something is wrong. We used to be able to talk to each other, we used to be able to settle our differences.
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