B.G. Lee on Facing a New and Younger Singapore
Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, son of Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew and the man said to be behind the city-state's recent economic reforms, met with TIME correspondents Terry McCarthy and Eric Ellis. Following is the full text of the interview:
Munshi Ahmed for TIME
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TIME: Do you see anything injurious to Singapore emerging in Indonesia?
Lee: We have a great interest in a successful, stable and peaceful Indonesia, and if it is not like that, there is a penalty we pay, because the whole region is affected.
TIME: There are some stories that St John's Island [off the coast of Singapore] is being set up as a refugee holding center.
Lee: There are all kinds of rumors. We worry about a lot of things.
TIME: What is the model for Singapore? Switzerland, Costa Rica?
Lee: There is no model which exactly fits our circumstances. If you look back far enough perhaps you could say Venice provides an encouraging model because it was a small city state with far-flung trade networks that survive a thousand years. In the modern world we are different--you can compare us with Switzerland, but Switzerland is in the midst of a very different region with the EU. You can compare us with former colonies, little ones, but many of them have been reabsorbed--Hong Kong, Goa, East Timor.
There must be a sense of nationhood and a sense of shared identity, even though we are different races and different religions. You need strong roots and strong bonds, but at the same time we have to be an outward-looking, cosmopolitan society, because we make our living doing business with the world, and we are only relevant as long as we are up to date.
TIME: Is change happening because of a younger generation of leaders taking over?
Lee: A younger generation of leaders and a younger generation of Singaporeans. The formative experiences are different. This generation has grown up in stable times, seen progressively improving standards of living, gone to good schools, many gone on to university, good careers, and now in last two years been rather rigorously reminded that this is still rather an unpredictable part of the world. What we need to do is to maintain a confidence, but yet be aware of the vulnerabilities. You have to speak a different language to the younger generation. But the imperatives, the constraints, the things we have to do as a nation have not changed so much.
We would be foolish if we didn't use this opportunity to educate people. You can see it happening in front of you all the time, and not just on television watching riots and demonstrations. But people who have taken temporary refuge in Singapore and you can see them in the shopping centers and the parks at weekends--I think these are salutary experiences, the whole world is not as peaceful and benign as you might think from just looking at Singapore.
TIME: Can you use this sense of crisis to engineer change?
Lee: Not so much engineer change, but inoculate people with certain immune responses that will last them for a long time. Do not assume that what we have got is in the natural scheme of things.
TIME: Singapore has a well thought-out and transparent succession--does that set you apart in S.E. Asia?
Lee: We are not Indonesia, if we had not moved on I think our leadership would have got out of date, and been unable to govern as effectively and make the changes in policy and approach which are necessary.
TIME: You are widely seen to be a candidate for the next prime minister--does it give you some comfort there is no threat of riots if you take over?
Lee: First of all, that is not fixed, it depends on the political sentiments of the people and the confidence of the MP's. But there is a mechanism and there are enough people in play in the leadership that they know they have a team which is competent to lead. That is more important that personalities.
TIME: Would you be prepared to take over?
Lee: If they have confidence in you, then it is your job to do it. It would be irresponsible to say no I don't want for personal reasons. This is not a job really, this is more a vocation.
TIME: Do you have any sense of a timetable. Goh has said he will go through to the next elections, and then start to step back.
Lee: No there is no timetable. I make a contribution where I can be useful, and I think I am useful where I am now.
TIME: Is there any contradiction in the strong political line you still put out and this younger and you hope more creative generation.
Lee: There is a range of views outside. Our job is to try and represent a middle ground and tap as broad a range as possible, as long as they are consistent with the fundamentals, which means you have to be for Singapore and want to build this place up and not tear institutions down. I think there are quite a number of people PAP, Roundtable, even in the opposition--and we will work with them.
TIME: Is the Internal Security Act the type of language you want to speak to the younger generation?
Lee: The ISA is a very interesting case. We have never used it against political opponents, only when it has been for security interests. We have arrested two people in '97 and two in '98 for espionage cases. these games go on all the time and you have to deal with them and it cannot always be by the Queensberry rules. You need the ISA.
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