"No Region Can Break Away"

Why are soldiers wantonly killing civilians in Aceh? Last week, TIME's Jason Tedjasukmana put that and other searching questions about the Indonesian military's offensive to army chief General Ryamizard Ryacudu, 53, at his home in South Jakarta. Here are excerpts:

TIME: We have eyewitness accounts of soldiers executing Acehnese villagers aged 11 to 20 in northern Bireun district. Do you think it's okay to kill kids?
RYAMIZARD: It's not a matter of being a child. If they are armed and fire, they will be shot, because children—and women—can kill, too.

TIME: Who should be held responsible in Aceh?
RYAMIZARD: I will take responsibility for any order I give. But my orders and those of the armed-forces commander are clear: don't kill civilians. If I send someone out to buy fried bananas and that person gets caught stealing them, or stealing money to buy them, should I also be punished? I have sent military police to Aceh to watch over soldiers. Any soldier who misbehaves will be sanctioned, even for minor disciplinary violations, let alone if they kill someone arbitrarily.

TIME: Why are you adopting a hard-line strategy in Aceh?
RYAMIZARD: No region can be allowed to break away. That includes Aceh and Papua. Even if those making noises (about independence) number up to a million, this is a country of more than 220 million people. Our job is to safeguard unity. Our job is to destroy GAM's military capability. Issues of justice, religion, autonomy, social welfare, education—those are not the Indonesian military's problems.

TIME: So you intend to wipe out GAM?
RYAMIZARD: It will be impossible for us to get rid of them 100%. But I'm not saying just kill them. Many have surrendered, and they have not been killed. If they are armed, and resist and fire, they will be killed. Weapons have to be faced with weapons. Soldiers everywhere do the same thing. What people don't understand is that the more we leave them alone, the more victims there are, not the other way around. More people killed, more police killed, more soldiers killed. What country allows this to happen? We are not in Aceh to violate human rights but to enforce security.

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