Timehost says, "We're going to be talking tonight about the scandals surrounding
President Clinton. We're being joined by two Time editors, Janice Castro and Dick Duncan, and by a
presidential historian, Gil Troy, a professor of history at McGill University in Montreal, and the author of
two books about presidential politics, "Affairs of State: The Rise and Rejection of the Presidential Couple
Since World War II" and "See How They Ran: The Changing Role of the Presidential Candidate."
Janice_castro says, "Welcome, Mr. Troy. Glad you could make it."
Timehost says, "Thanks to all of you for joining us."
Gil_troy says, "I'm happy to be here, even on this sad day for American politics."
Timehost says, "First question. And Gil Troy, why don't you start? Did any of you
expect this kind of a scandal."
Gil_troy says, "To a certain extent, if you've watched Clinton's career this scandal
was all too predictable. In 1992, he said the pain he'd caused in his marriage was all behind him, but
increasingly Clinton has been unable to escape these scandals. I didn't expect it, but we shouldn't be
surprised. It's part of a larger pattern of behavior."
Timehost says, "Dick?"
Dick_duncan says, "I would agree that it is part of an evident pattern of behavior.
Moreover, our own cultural and political behavior are now dedicated to chasing this kind of target as
never before."
Gil_troy says, "Certainly in the last 25 years, Americans and especially reporters
have become obsessed with what goes on in the presidential boudoir. But Clinton knew that when he took the
job."
Janice_castro says, "Gil Troy makes an interesting point in saying Clinton has been
unable to escape these scandals..."
Gil_troy says, "And if these allegations are true, they suggest an arrogant refusal
to acknowledge reality."
Janice_castro says, "He has been under extraordinary scrutiny...that, plus his
pattern of behavior with women, seemed to point to a scandal sooner or later."
Timehost says, "Let's take a question from online..."
Timehost presents question #1092 from Mactheknife: Is the media putting the cart
before the horse here? Evidence for a sex scandal may prove to be aplenty, but where does all the talk
about impeachment come from? It seems a long way off before anything could be proven on perjury or
obstruction of justice.
Gil_troy says, "In the post-Watergate world, it is true that we again, especially
reporters, are often looking for impeachment-type scandals. But if President Clinton has been caught
suborning perjury, that certainly is an impeachable offense and would be a sad day for the Republic."
Janice_castro says, "Yes, IF is the operative word, however. We seem to be
putting the analysis ahead of discovery."
Dick_duncan says, "What I saw about impeachment was not from the media, but
from Rep. Henry Hyde. I agree that it is early, but the possibilities are there for consideration of
impeachment at some point."
Janice_castro says, "Yes, but pundits and analysts were having a heyday with it
this evening."
Gil_troy says, "The point about analysis is well taken, but since television usurped
the print media's role in reporting events, analysis has often come before or with the description of events.
And as for impeachment talk, I also heard it from George Stephanopoulos who is half politician, half media
god."
Janice_castro says, "Not sure what you mean about TV vs. Print here, Gil. The Los
Angeles Times was printing the story as ABC was preparing to air it. TIME and Newsweek were hobbled by
being weeklies, and nearly having the story when they ran out of time with their weekly deadlines on the
weekend."
Gil_troy says, "I'm talking about a broader phenomenon, whereby in the last 30
years, more and more newspaper space is filled with commentary on investigative reports and all kinds of
analysis primarily because Americans no longer turn to papers for the first draft of events."
Janice_castro says, "OK. I see."
Gil_troy says, "They now turn to TV, and print reporters have had to find a new
justification for their work."
Janice_castro says, "Let's take another question, shall we?"
Timehost says, "Let's take a question about how the new allegations have
surfaced..."
Timehost presents question #1108 from Bob_bagnole: But how did the Independent
Counsel get from investigating Whitewater to wiring a woman who supposedly had an affair with the
President?
Janice_castro says, "He makes the connection with his investigation of Vernon
Jordan's role in possibly helping Webb Hubbell when Starr was investigating him. Starr says he was struck
by Jordan's alleged role in getting this young woman a job that would take her out of the way of scrutiny by
Starr or Paula Jones' lawyers to protect the President from a new scandal."
Gil_troy says, "I agree that there are serious questions about the role of the
independent prosecutor. I do not believe that the independent prosecutor statute was meant to be a full-time
Torquemada whose full-time job it is to torture the president."
Janice_castro says, "I agree with Troy about the stretching of the independent
prosecutor's role. He seems to have carte blanche."
Gil_troy says, "I also see Starr's argument that there's a broader pattern of
behavior, but it's still troubling. And as for Jordan, I have to say it saddened me to see this giant of the
civil rights movement reduced to this role in a squalid scandal."
Janice_castro says, "I agree."
Gil_troy says, "Once again, it seems that Clinton has served as the Typhoid Mary
of the yuppie Democratic political world, infecting all those around him, and yet surviving. I, for one, am
relieved that I'm not a friend of Bill."
Dick_duncan says, "I thought we were talking how the story surfaced. It appears it
surfaced from the Paula Jones camp"
Timehost presents question #1109 from Edmol: Will Starr make Clinton go before
Grand Jury, or is that too big a risk?
Janice_castro says, "Dick? What do you think?"
Dick_duncan says, "Whoa..what role are you sure Jordan was reduced to?"
Janice_castro says, "Do we know that is true? Do we know that he was?"
Gil_troy says, "First of all, the notion that he was out there in this press
conference squirming and distancing himself from his role as President Clinton's fixer. But this was
probably his most public moment in years and I still prefer to think of him as a civil rights great."
Janice_castro says, "I think we have to look at the facts we know, and the facts
we don't. This scandal is all too familiar, and has a ring of familiarity, but we do not know the truth of the
allegations yet."
Gil_troy says, "My comment about Vernon Jordan being Clinton's fixer did not
necessarily refer to this incident, but this is the role he has carved out apparently and that is the role that
raised Ken Starr's suspicions."
Timehost presents question #1103 from Dearreader: Who can blame anyone,
especially the President of the United States, for lying about an extramarital affair--it's not quite the same
thing as lying about trying to subvert the constitution, as in Watergate or Iran-Contra.
Janice_castro says, "Good point, Dearreader-- however, if it turns out to be true
that the President and/or Jordan encouraged perjury, that is a very serious crime. This is where we get
the talk of impeachment: the notion that this may involve far more than extramarital affairs."
Gil_troy says, "Looking over past scandals, we often find that particular crimes
seem to stick to particular people. Ken Starr could not get any traction on a money scandal on the Clintons,
but because of Bill Clinton's past, he has found it possible to get traction on this sex scandal."
Janice_castro says, "And coming on top of Clinton's deposition in the Jones' case,
it only seems to be spiraling downward and obstruction of justice is very much on the table, which is where
the Jordan connection becomes so promising to Starr."
Gil_troy says, "Is it as serious as undermining the constitution? No. But he did
know what he was getting into and he should have been able to control himself for four or eight years."
Dick_duncan says, "There is a history of tolerating lies about sex in our society,
but there are also federal laws, and I think we have to enforce them."
Gil_troy says, "In the post-Watergate era, perjury has often been the last refuge
of the special prosecutor. If he can't get someone for they crime they're initially accused of, you can often get
them for trying to squirm their way out of the trouble caused. Even if I'm a bit hard on Clinton tonight, I do
think we've gotten a bit trigger-happy in Washington, always trying to defeat opponents through scandal, not
policy debate."
Timehost presents question #1105 from Woods_time: Have we reached the point
where the (pardon the pun) affairs of state have been affected by the President's preoccupation with his
legal troubles? Is Clinton able to spend the time and mental energy he should on being President?
Timehost presents the speakers with question #1105 from Woods_time: Have we
reached the point where the (pardon the pun) affairs of state have been affected by the President's
preoccupation with his legal troubles? Is Clinton able to spend the time and mental energy he should on
being President?
Janice_castro says, "Woods: that's a good point. I found it very disturbing tonight
to see the Palestinians wondering whether the President would have the time to think about making peace in
the Middle East. But isn't this, perhaps, the President's fault? If all of this stems from his personal
behavior?"
Dick_duncan says, "The British ministers resign immediately under the duress of
impropriety, for whatever that is worth."
Gil_troy says, "The point is well taken on two counts. First, this broader tendency
in the last 30 years to create this huge scandal-mongering machine has distracted almost every president
since Nixon. More specifically, Bill Clinton has rarely had any peace since he entered the White House and
who knows, maybe without the scandal, he might have been the great president he wanted to be."
Janice_castro says, "I found myself thinking of Nixon tonight...and all the questions
during Watergate, about whether Nixon could have the time or attention he needed to handle little problems
like the Vietnam War."
Gil_troy says, "One thing that is striking about politicians, especially those that
become presidents, is that even on a good day, they deal with so many issues. They have to learn to
compartmentalize and economize."
Janice_castro says, "Safire's column today on that was brilliant."
Gil_troy says, "Nixon was able to focus on dŽtente, the Yom Kippur War and other
pressing issues until the very end. Clinton seems to have that skill, too. Although tonight, I doubt that he's
really thinking about Middle East peace."
Timehost says, "Gil Troy, you've written a book called "Affairs of State: The Rise
and Rejection of the Presidential Couple Since World War II." How is First Lady Hillary Clinton fitting into all
this?"
Gil_troy says, "First, this has to be a very painful and humiliating moment for Mrs.
Clinton. And it's ironic that it's coming just as her popularity ratings are finally reviving after the health
care debacle of 1993. Where this all fits into the argument in my book is that Americans continue to yearn
for an ideal couple in the White House even as they peek more and more aggressively under the presidential
bedsheets."
Janice_castro says, "This scandal may actually boost Mrs. Clinton's popularity,
via the sympathy vote."
Gil_troy says, "Yes, she will indeed get the suffering-political-widow-of-the -year
award. But Hillary Clinton has always wanted more than that and she deserves more than that.
Janice_castro says, "She's got guts, I'll say that for her."
Gil_troy says, "She has no choice."
Timehost presents question #1093 from Mactheknife: How would you rate Clinton's
response to the allegations? Did he lose valuable time by that slip-up over tenses in denying an affair with
Lewinsky on PBS? Should we expect his in -house fix-it squad to get the President through this one a-okay?
Janice_castro says, "His response was sloppy. He was too vague, he evaded
specifics. He acted guilty."
Dick_duncan says, "I don't think he has fully responded yet. They are obviously
orchestrating a complete defense. I think, however, that he was tight and not very good yesterday."
Gil_troy says, "I agree that President Clinton was off his game yesterday, but I
have learned never to underestimate the comeback kid. He should have gone down in New Hampshire in
1992. He should have been felled by the troopergate sex scandals in Christmas 93, yet again and again, this
remarkable political survivor has endured. Not that I'm making any predictions...."
Janice_castro says, "Good points. But this one is very sticky."
Gil_troy says, "Let me also say, I think also we should note that Bill Clinton is
suffering from somewhat of a media backlash. I noticed on the network news, that as they played the tape
of his interview, reporters were giving a play-by-play analysis. This in some ways, is a violation of the
implicit bargain between politicians and reporters. The president, especially, is usually able to speak
without that kind of intrusion."
Dick_duncan says, "What do you mean media backlash?"
Janice_castro says, "What bargain?"
Gil_troy says, "I mean by backlash that many reporters seem genuinely
disappointed and surprised by this scandal. And I also mean that reporters these days in general are more
aggressive and don't follow the rules. As for the bargain, of course, there are no formal rules, but usually
reporters play a tape and then comment. And to comment during the tape did have a way of making a
problematic confession completely useless."
Dick_duncan says, "I agree that reporters are not following the old rules. I'm not
sure, though, that there is much unity in how they are reacting to these allegations."
Gil_troy says, "It's true that, as always, individual reporters react differently.
But you often do see a herd-mentality as Timothy Crouse first mentioned in "Boys on the Bus"? And I think
there has been a certain tone of shock and disappointment that I sense on television."
Dick_duncan says, "There is some snickering, a certain amount of sorrow, and a lot
of suspended judgment."
Gil_troy says, "I don't mean to be critical of reporters. This is a very difficult
time."
Timehost presents question #1102 from Dearreader: It seems to me that this
scandal is the ultimate in the tabloidization of America -- we concentrate hardest on scandals that are easy
to understand.
Gil_troy says, "We have a figure in the sex scandal who's more like a character on
Beverly Hills 90210 than a political thriller, and yet, if they tried this plot line on "Bev", it would be
dismissed as far too outlandish."
Janice_castro says, "How have we tabloidized this scandal? The President's
deposition is the stuff of tabloids, but no matter how dryly you reported it, it was sleazy. It was
disappointing. It was embarrassing. This other matter exploding in the last couple of days...Again, a tabloid
type of story, but how can you make it otherwise?"
Dick_duncan says, "It is pretty hard to report these events in a way that is in
keeping with the traditional dignity, even majesty of the office."
Janice_castro says, "I agree."
Gil_troy says, "We're definitely in a situation with no rules and shocking
precedents. Let's also not forget that President Clinton had an opportunity to settle with Paula Jones and
Paula Jones was deeply offended by the aggressive attack on her as white trailer trash by Clinton's men.
This, too, is part of a broader pattern of behavior that has now blown up in the President's face."
Dick_duncan says, "None of them come from trailers, of course."
Timehost presents question #1094 from Mactheknife: Any news on how Newsweek
got such great access to the tapes? Any truth in the rumor that Vernon Jordan arranged for the magazine's
story on the scandal to be squashed? Where was TIME during all this?
Dick_duncan says, "There are only rumors. But the Newsweek reporter was known
to be close to the Paula Jones camp, as so was Tripp, with her tapes."
Janice_castro says, "TIME was hot on the story as well. The Newsweek reporter
has been working on this story for a year. And did a good job."
Gil_troy says, "Just to inject a note of historical contrast...in Dec. 1975, when
TIME ran a story going beyond the Church committee findings, titled "JFK's Other Women," Newsweek led
the barrage against TIME for daring to be so disrespectful to the presidency and to Kennedy's memory. Boy, how times
have changed."
Janice_castro says, "Dick?"
Dick_duncan says, "That is true & it looks good in the light of history, but I remember standing
in the Time's Washington bureau in the early 60's hearing jokes about Kennedy's women but not seeing them in
the magazine."
Janice_castro says, "Dick makes a good point. Reporters did not report what they knew about personal
scandals in the old days."
Gil_troy says, "IN my book, I call this period of Dec. 1975, the "primal scene of
presidential politics"-- when the combined effect of the sexual revolution, Watergate, the Kennedy revelations,
and Betty Ford's unprecedented candor about the Ford family life led Americans to peek into the
presidential bedroom, and forced reporters to change the "gentlemanly rules" by which
they previously lived."
Janice_castro says, "Time ran a discreet story about George Bush's lady friend years before
her name was publicized during the 1992 presidential elections. By Hillary Clinton, in
fact, in Vanity Fair."
Gil_troy says, "The question is: how do we restore some balance? I don't know of any reporters
who want to go back to the good ol' days of the 1960s when so much was swept under the rug. But how do we negotiate
new boundaries between private and public? How do we give public figures something of a private life, while also keeping
up certain basic standards of morality and behavior?"
Dick_duncan says, "I think most reporters would rather be reporting about the process of
government than chasing alleged Presidential girlfriends."
Janice_castro says, "Dick's right."
Timehost says, "There's a difference between what appears in the papers and
what's in the courts..."
Timehost presents the speakers with question #1111 from Highroad: I think it's a
problem for presidents, if they can be called in to testify in civil depositions, where there's a wide latitude
to ask them anything--you couple that with an independent counsel who wires people, in areas that they're
not even officially investigating, and then the President finds that he could face impeachment, where as far
as I know, there are no official rules of evidence. Could any President survive, especially if political
opponents (like Ken Starr) are out for blood?
Janice_castro says, "Well, it would help if there was nothing like this to
investigate."
Gil_troy says, "TouchŽ to Janice."
Janice_castro says, "I'd say Harry Truman would survive just fine. And so would Jimmy Carter."
Dick_duncan says, "And so would Eisenhower. Kennedy and Johnson would have been
as scandal-ridden as this guy -- or worse,"
Gil_troy says, "While I agree that the combined effect of Starr's Torquemada and the civil suit
has proved devastating and in some ways unfair, I do think we should be wary not to smear all presidents and all
politicians by assuming they have as much to hide as Bill Clinton seems to. I think also distinction needs to be made
between activity prior to becoming president. Eisenhower, for example, while in the White House, was a model of
rectitude and decorum. A worthy role model for American children."
Janice_castro says, "But not during the war. And trooper gate concerned allegations about Clinton's
behavior while governor."
Dick_duncan says, "I thought she was his jeep driver...ha ha."
Gil_troy says, "There's certainly questions about whether or not Ike had an affair"
Janice_castro says, "But the present charges concern his behavior in the Oval
Office."
Gil_troy says, "with his chauffeur with Kay Summersby."
Janice_castro says, "ha!"
Gil_troy says, "What's interesting is that in the 1950s, few people believed it. By the 1970s, most
people believed it."
Janice_castro says, "In the 50s, people didn't talk about these things in public."
Gil_troy says, "Today, many historians who have looked most closely at
Eisenhower do not believe that there was a physical relationship, and yet, most others who know about this,
assume that it happened."
Janice_castro says, "And there was every bit as much of it going on, maybe more.
The 90s are tough on romance for some folks. :-)"
Gil_troy says, "Clearly, different social attitudes affect the way we perceive the
actions of our leaders."
Timehost presents the speakers with question #1112 from Highroad: is this the
repubican's revenge for the treatment of clarence thomas?
Janice_castro says, "boy, that's a reach! I think it's the Republicans' revenge for Clinton's
success, if anything."
Dick_duncan says, "Revenge for that and a lot of other things. I've always thought Republicans
were always equally guilty of sexual offenses but felt guiltier about it."
Gil_troy says, "I would say that while once again, we have to hold Bill Clinton
accountable for his own behavior, there is a line. Historians of the future will indeed draw that line. It begins
with Watergate, goes through Robert Bork, goes through Clarence Thomas and ends up around Clinton's neck. And there is
a question of the increasing ugliness in Washington and the increasingly ugly nature of American politics
even at a time of peace and prosperity."
Janice_castro says, "We've all heard the stories about Nixon."
Dick_duncan says, "Thanks. I've got to run."
Timehost says, "Thanks, Dick..."
Janice_castro says, "Thanks for joining us, Dick."
Timehost says, "Can you two take a few more questions before we sign off?"
Janice_castro says, "Sure."
Gil_troy says, "Sure."
Timehost presents the speakers with question #1106 from Woods_time: If these
latest allegations aren't cleared up by the fall, ho will this scandal affect the November elections?
Timehost says, "I'm particularly interested in how this will impact Gore."
Janice_castro says, "It will hurt the Democratic candidates for Congress."
Janice_castro says, "Gore is fading."
Gil_troy says, "I'm an historian and I'm much more comfortable predicting the past
than the future."
Timehost says, "So far, we haven't heard anything from him."
Janice_castro says, "Gil, write that down and pin that on the wall. That's my job
too -- reporting, not predicting."
Gil_troy says, "Nevertheless, I do think that in some perverse ways, a Clinton
sex scandal is good news for Al Gore, who, by all accounts, has a
very happy marriage and is a model of rectitude in his personal life."
Janice_castro says, "And is uninspiring."
Gil_troy says, "This is in no way a hearty endorsement for Gore as president and I
agree about the Democratic candidates in 1998."
Gil_troy says, "The silence from the Democratic Congress in the last two days has
been deafening."
Janice_castro says, "yes"
Gil_troy says, "And that silence has certainly been noted in the Clinton White
House, which has done much to alienate the Democrats there for so long."
Janice_castro says, "Don't you think the Democrats are steamed? Don't you think some of
them feel betrayed?"
Gil_troy says, "Absolutely. I think that's a very good point."
Janice_castro says, "And not by the Republicans."
Gil_troy says, "And I think many Americans feel betrayed."
Janice_castro says, "That's true"
Gil_troy says, "When Clinton ran in 1992 with his new covenant, implicitly he was
promising that all these shenanigans were in his past."
Janice_castro says, "This business about Clinton leaving phone messages....haven't
we heard that one before?"
Gil_troy says, "Americans still demand dignity from the president"
Janice_castro says, "They always allow people a fresh start."
Gil_troy says, "And this, along with the Lincoln Bedroom scandals, will go down, if
true, as a sign of a deep disrespect for the White House, which is, of course, the
American Holy of Holies."
Timehost says, "There are still people who are interested in the comparison of this
with previous scandals, most notably Watergate..."
Janice_castro says, "Watergate was exponentially worse."
Timehost presents question #1098 from Bob_bagnole: How does this scandal
compare with Watergate? Is the analogy between the two blow-outs being made by the media even
accurate?
Janice_castro says, "They are not comparable. But this, if true, is bad enough."
Gil_troy says, "I agree that the constitutional crimes and the broad abuses in Watergate
do make this scandal seem somewhat pale."
Janice_castro says, "And disgusting."
Gil_troy says, "And it is troubling that ever since Watergate, many of us have been in search
for another great scandal."
Janice_castro says, "Us being? Authors?"
Gil_troy says, "I would actually compare Clinton's scandals to Harding's Tea Pot
Dome scandals of the 1920s, which combined stories of sexual promiscuity involving the president and his aides, with
petty profiteering. Hmmmm... sounds familiar."
Janice_castro says, "I don't know any regular folks who are waiting for the next
big scandal..."
Gil_troy says, "The big difference, of course, was that Warren Harding was
"lucky" enough to die before the scandals broke."
Janice_castro says, "The people I know are just tired, and disgusted, and
disappointed to hear of this."
Gil_troy says, "And there wasn't this institutionalized scandal-mongering machine in Washington."
Timehost says, "Yet we have heard suggestions, I've seen people saying it on
television, it's the worst scandal to hit the presidency...and they immediately compare it to Watergate..."
Janice_castro says, "Well, it may be."
Timehost says, "That's what this questioner asks..."
Janice_castro says, "You have the President as the subject of a criminal case,
giving a deposition...however sleazy the issue...."
Timehost presents the speakers with question #1097 from Zhurnalistka: Do you
believe that, as the TV talk show pundits like to gush, this crisis is the worst ever for the US presidency?
Janice_castro says, "You have further criminal allegations immediately following
that deposition"
Timehost says, "Is it taking such a life of its own because it's such a simple
scandal?"
Janice_castro says, "This is the worst scandal to hit the White House in 20 years."
Janice_castro says, "No, not the worst ever."
Timehost says, "Everyone understands an affair...a complicated land deal is lots
tougher to explain."
Janice_castro says, "Nixon's was the worst."
Gil_troy says, "The Nixon tapes prove that Janice is right."
Janice_castro says, "Thanks."
Gil_troy says, "Watergate is in a whole different category."
Janice_castro says, "Host, the reason this story is taking on a life of its own is
because the alleged evidence is a landslide. It's pouring out..."
Gil_troy says, "We do, however, live in the age of the manic depressive
presidency, where Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bill Clinton, all have seen headlines go from praising them one day to
bashing them the next."
Janice_castro says, "it's a mess."
Timehost says, "Iran-Contra was like a thriller whose author couldn't even
understand the plot...it was not an immediately sexy story, like this one."
Gil_troy says, "This is because we live in a culture that's so wired to the media and so
inured to sensationalism that everything becomes either the best or the worst and we go from one extreme to the
other. We need some balance."
Janice_castro says, "You know, I think we're trying to talk about two subjects
here..."
Janice_castro says, "One is the tabloidization of the media...and the eagerness for
simple scandals or whatever... the other is this Clinton Scandal... which is tabloidy and disgusting and
messy. Without the tabloidization of the media, this would be a
tabloid story."
Timehost says, "I think we've got to wrap things up, but let's take one more
question..."
Janice_castro says, "OK"
Timehost says, "it's one I've heard a number of people ask today..."
Timehost presents the speakers with question #1114 from Highroad: If this is true,
why couldn't the President keep his pants on for 8 years?
Janice_castro says, "We're talking about Bill Clinton here."
Gil_troy says, "I said this will go down as the great tragedy of Bill Clinton, but we should
understand that being president of the US is like being a rock star. Everyone fawns all over you, everyone worships you."
Janice_castro says, "A rock star who just turned 50."
Gil_troy says, "And even though I condemn him, I do understand that as a man who
has"
Janice_castro says, "that's a spur to bad behavior too"
Gil_troy says, "spent his career seducing crowds and seducing women, the two
often blur together and it's very hard to control himself. This is not an apology, but an
explanation for what does seem inexplicable and contemptible."
Janice_castro says, "I don't know, Gil, sounds like you are excusing him. It is true that
powerful politicians attract lots of women. You see them all over capitol hill."
Gil_troy says, "I'm simply succumbing to the historian's desire to explain."
Janice_castro says, "They are surrounded by adoration, but it's a question of character."
Gil_troy says, "There is the broader problem in American culture of the charismatic politician."
Janice_castro says, "Yes"
Gil_troy says, "John Kennedy, Gary Hart, Bill Clinton, and there's something
there. It is best captured in the start of Primary Colors, where we"
Janice_castro says, "...And Ted Kennedy, and all the others"
Gil_troy says, "see Clinton acting as a primal force of nature, going from seducing
the crowds to seducing women."
Janice_castro says, "Yes"
Gil_troy says, "And in a presidential campaign, we obviously want a candidate who
can seduce crowds, but we don't want a candidate who has insulted women as Clinton seems to have done, even as
parading as America's favorite feminist male."
Janice_castro says, "We want a candidate who makes us feel good about us. That's Gore's problem."
Timehost says, "Okay, before, we sign off, any closing thoughts, or predictions
about what's likely to happen, how this is likely to play out?"
Janice_castro says, "I think it's going to get a lot more complicated. There is this pile of
alleged evidence to deal with. The democrats have to come out of their offices and say
something. The republicans are champing at the bit. The president has acted arrogantly, and now he has to mount
a defense. Some of his best aides have left, his war generals: Ickes for one. Stephanopoulos for another."
Gil_troy says, "I absolutely agree with Janice."
Janice_castro says, "There are questions of perjury and obstruction of justice"
Janice_castro says, "go ahead, Gil."
Gil_troy says, "Clinton's White House is looking more and more like the Titanic
every day. But allow me to end on a positive note. While citizens in other countries might mock Americans for being
so concerned with their presidents' personal lives, as an historian I see this as another chapter in America's search for
virtue, going back to the founding of the Republic."
Janice_castro says, "Good point."
Gil_troy says, "Americans have always believed that a virtuous nation, a virtuous
citizenry requires virtuous leaders."
Janice_castro says, "And that doesn't make us weak. It makes us strong."
Gil_troy says, "And even as the news gets more and more depressing, let's hope
that we still hold to some ideals and continue our quest for virtue."
Janice_castro says, "That's a good place to end. Good luck to everyone!"
Gil_troy says, "Thank you for a stimulating discussion."
Janice_castro says, "Thank you for joining us tonight."
Timehost says, "Thanks for joining us online tonight."
Gil_troy says, "Is it inappropriate for me to plug my book, Affairs of State: The
Rise and Rejection of the Presidential Couple Since World War II?"
Janice_castro says, "nah, go ahead."
Gil_troy says, "Available on amazon.com and elsewhere."
Janice_castro says, "and barnes and noble, right here at time.com"
Timehost says, "And while we're at it, don't forget Gil's other book, "See How They
Ran: The Changing Role of the Presidential Candidate.""
Gil_troy says, "Thank you and good night."
Janice_castro says, "Thank you."
Timehost says, "Thanks everyone for joining us tonight."
