De Gaulle's approach was good for France, because it led to a renewal of our national spirit. The whole question is this: Are all our responsibilities in the international arena going to be based on the U.S., or will the other countries conserve their personal responsibility and have their own policies? The other Europeans were entirely indifferent to this question.

Another big turning point was the independence of Algeria. This was extremely revolutionary. It was accepted by the French, but not easily. If De Gaulle had not been in power, it would not have been accepted in such a short time. Algerian independence also had international implications because it liberated us, giving us a free hand to act elsewhere. If the war had continued, the accord with the Germans would have had less effect. But once the Algerian war ended in 1962, French foreign policy was freer than before. It was not a coincidence that the German treaty was signed one year later, in 1963.