The World According To Ma

In the less than three months that ma ying-jeou has been Taiwan's President, relations between Taipei and Beijing have seen the most rapid advancement in the six-decade standoff between the two governments. Ma has launched direct weekend charter flights between China and Taiwan, opened the island to mainland tourists, eased restrictions on Taiwan investment on the mainland and approved measures that will allow mainland investors to buy Taiwan stocks. But he still faces formidable challenges at home and abroad. Ahead of his first international diplomatic trip, to Paraguay and the Dominican Republic, Ma, 58, spoke with TIME's Zoher Abdoolcarim and Michael Schuman on relations with China, the economy and domestic politics. Excerpts from their hour-long conversation:

TIME: You've accomplished quite a bit on the China front, but your approval rating is down to about 35%. Don't Taiwan's people want better relations with the mainland?
They have very high expectations for my administration, so they expect very quick change. My cross-strait policy is the most popular among people here. But we have encountered the worst economic storm in many years; what has happened in the U.S. has affected our economy to a very great extent. All I can do is provide more aid to people who cannot resist the impact ... What we are trying to do is open up, deregulate, liberalize as much as possible. All of these measures are intended to make Taiwan a more competitive area in our part of the world. We'll have a difficult time, maybe even into next year, but eventually we'll make it because our policies are right.

What are your next steps with Beijing?
We have just done a very small step by allowing charter flights. That has to be improved. If you fly from Shanghai to Taipei you still have to fly over the airspace of Hong Kong. The air controllers of Taiwan and the mainland are still unable to talk to each other. We have to change that, and we may be able to change that in the next couple of months so that we can save fuel and time. Then we open up direct navigation between the seaports in China and Taiwan. Next year we hope to negotiate an air-transport agreement with the mainland to convert the weekend charters to everyday charters and then to scheduled flights just like everywhere else in the world. Beyond that we are now working on a comprehensive economic-cooperation agreement that will cover a large range of issues from investment guarantees, avoidance of double taxation and joint exploration of oil and gas in the Taiwan Strait.

You sound very confident all this is going to happen.
What we're trying to do, in a word, is normalization of our economic relations with the mainland. Mainland China has become our No. 1 trading partner. This relationship already exists, and it has to be given recognition.

What about Taiwan's participation in international organizations?
This is more difficult in the sense that many international organizations require statehood as the basis for admission. But for organizations like the World Trade Organization, which can take in countries under the name of a separate customs territory, we did exactly that. We were admitted in 2002 with a very awkward name: Separate Customs Territory of Taiwan. Chinese Taipei for short. This is a new model. We are trying to get into the World Health Assembly [of the World Health Organization]. The first obstacle is the name we are going to use. As with the WTO, we will not use Taiwan or Republic of China. We will be flexible on names. Are you surprised by how quickly the leadership in Beijing has responded to your initiatives? The U.S. and the mainland were very worried about what was happening in Taiwan because of [the previous administration's] diplomatic adventurism and a rather antagonistic attitude toward the mainland. Now, the U.S. and Japan and [the rest of Asia] can rest assured that confrontation is unlikely in the Taiwan Strait. Mainland China poses a threat to Taiwan, but it is also an opportunity. So the problem is your own mind-set. Are we going to take the mainland as a threat only? Or do we take it as both a threat and an opportunity? If the latter, then you maximize the opportunity and minimize the threat. That's what we're doing.

Taiwan people tell us they worry that closer ties with China will dilute the character of Taiwan, which is freer, more spirited, more independent.
I wouldn't worry about that at all. It is a golden opportunity for Taiwan — not just to make money but to also establish [greater] friendship with mainland people. The education ministry has decided to recognize mainland diplomas and many mainland students will come to Taiwan to study. I want young people from the two sides to get to know each other at a relatively early stage of their lives. This is the best way for mutual understanding. If we continue to do that, in the next 10 years, you will have mainlanders in Taiwan and Taiwanese on the mainland — a very close interrelationship. I don't see how you can start a war then. That's the best national defense.

Can Taiwan change China?
Many [mainland people] watch Taiwan TV. On March 22, my election day, the vote-counting process after the booths closed lasted for two to three hours. It was televised live worldwide. We estimate that at least 300 million overseas Chinese and mainland Chinese watched that. Three years ago, when we had local elections, the same thing happened. I was so impressed and so astonished. They didn't even know the candidates. Why would they want to watch that? I visited the website of the People's Daily. People sometimes leave comments on current events. One said, Why can an ordinary Taiwanese cast his vote? Why can't we? Are we second-class citizens? When you look at such questions, you know what kind of impact Taiwan can have on the mainland.

Some Taiwan people tell us that you are not bold and decisive enough, that you are too nice a guy for the rough and tumble of Taiwan politics.
I admit I'm a nice guy, but I'm not just nice. I'm also bold and decisive. Otherwise I could not have done so much in 21/2 months.

Two years ago you told us you didn't trust the Chinese mainland leadership. How do you feel now?
I think we are developing mutual trust, gradually. I think China's leaders are interested in having this kind of interaction with Taiwan. After all, they don't want an unstable international environment. They don't want war.

What sense do you have of Chinese President Hu Jintao?
In the interaction between Taiwan and the mainland I think he is a tough but sophisticated person who has demonstrated flexibility.

What impact will the Olympics have on China?
It will definitely elevate their status in the world. Pretty much like the Olympics in Tokyo in 1964 and in Seoul in 1988 — they used that as a symbol for national glory. We keep assuring [Beijing] that we in Taiwan would like to see a successful Olympic Games.