'We Will Never Have a Single European Nation'

TIME's James Graff spoke to Romano Prodi, President of the European Commission, about Europe's future development.

Q: For many Europeans, 16 months of the Convention has seemed like a spat between the various Brussels institutions. Why should Europeans care, for instance, if the relative power of the Commission is weakened?
A: They probably shouldn't. I've never seen a constitutional debate where the population cares about technical aspects. But if you ask the european population, they'll tell you they want most decisions in Europe to be taken by unanimity — which means paralysis — or by majority voting, The Americans don't know about the technicalities of the Congress, either.

Q: But didn't the nature of the debate further the old idea of the EU's democratic deficit?
A: This idea is unacceptable. I've been proposed by 15 member state governments, which were democratically elected. I've been approved by the European Parliament, voted in by the European population. Don't confuse democracy with direct election; that may be the most impressive form of democracy, but it's not the only one. That will be impossible in Europe for a while because of the many languages; we'd need a campaign that everyone understands. Europe is a union of peoples and nations. What I'm trying to do is demonstrate to our american friends that Europe is different. It's not better or worse, just completely different.

Q: Is America's overwhelming power a big factor in Europe's drive for integration?
A: It's too soon to give you an answer. American policy has always helped the European Union until now; it's a new event, this sense of malaise or distance. We had controversy before, but that was normal. Also in the most delicate moment, when we built the euro, many American observers were very skeptical. I could quote a couple of Nobel prize winners who said it was scientifically impossible. But the U.S. administration supported us. They could have ruined the euro with one message, one well targeted speculation towards some weak country — I was prime minister of Italy at the time and I know. But they didn't do it. Now we have an unfortunate deviation from history, but I think our interests are still for common action. I'm going to Washington with concrete proposals to improve relations with the United States.

Q: America fears that a common European policy will go in the direction of France's position, not of Britain's.
A: Well, if you try to split Europe, the answer has to be chauvinistic. I think [America's approach] is a mistake. We share the same roots, the same interests, and we put should aside prejudice and understand that friendship must be accompanied by dignity. It's difficult now at a moment of American history where America was hit by tragedy of september 11 and also think they can be self-sufficient, but the new world will push us to a new agreement. It starts with NATO: the U.S. has an interest in having a united European army as the European pillar of NATO alongside the American pillar.

Q: What do you think of Chirac's idea of Europe being a counterpole to the United States?
A: We have to accept that right now U.S. military power is unbelievably superior to anything in the world. It's correct that U.S. accept that we are a huge economic entity, that we've created the euro, something no one else has ever done, Of course there are different opinions on basic problems — the Kyoto accord, the international criminal court, the role of the UN. But how much these differences reflect this administration or are total changes in American history, well, we'll see. It's clear that trying to divide Europe on these issues only deepens the malaise. In the iraqi war, was the most important push for before iraq, nobody pushed me for a common foreign policy. Europeans simply didn't care. After the iraqi war, people from right and left have said we need a common foreign policy, you have no reaction to something like sending troops to the Congo. This was done in one moment, and it's starting to become an army. I was surprised that no national parliament objected to that.

Q: What are the specific European values that are different from the Americans?
A: One that's difficult to delineate: about quality of the protection of the citizen, through public health system, what we used to call the welfare state. This is more a flavor than a deep difference. In europe we believe in a market economy, but with this flavor. It's just a correction of the market, not a negation of it.