World: Plain Talk from Golda Meir

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How do you visualize a settlement?

Agreed, secure boundaries. Both adjectives have equal importance.

What would such be, from your point of view?

We don't draw maps. Why should I create a Jewish war before there is any hope whatsoever of peace with the Arabs? What do I mean? There are differences of opinion among this people. When the day comes when we sit with Nasser, and he will say here, and we will say here, and the negotiators representing Israel will think, well, maybe not exactly this, maybe here, maybe there. They will bring it to the Cabinet, and the Cabinet will have to discuss it and take a position. The Cabinet will break up. We will go to the Knesset and have new elections. But why should I do it now?

We say, come and negotiate with us for secure and agreed borders. Now, I say 'secure' because we have lived with those borders for 20 years. Anybody that tells us that we should step down so that the Syrians again can put their guns in position and to say to our people down below, don't budge, stay there —I want to see that hero. It is not moral. It is not decent.

What will you do if the Big Four agree on a Middle East settlement that Israel does not like?

I have no illusions. The U.N. Security Council will say, of course, this is wonderful: the big powers agree. It doesn't happen twice a week that the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. are in agreement. And we will say no. Then it will go to the Assembly, and maybe a special assembly—and we will say no. It won't be easy.

You have mentioned Arab perfidy several times. What makes you think they will keep any signed agreement? Isn't there a paradox here?

That's why we said 'secure borders.' When I say secure borders, I mean one thing: no natural advantage to our neighbors in the borders, because we have had all that. Because if Hussein's army, without crossing the border, can shell Tel Aviv—it wasn't so serious, one or two shells—but there can come more. And if Natanya, in the middle of the country, with only twelve miles between the sea and the former border, if that is cut, we are also through. On that I'm prepared to stand for elections—that this cannot happen, that these twelve miles can't be any more, and that the Golan Heights can't be any more. And I am not prepared that anybody should safeguard for me the free shipping through the Straits of Tiran.

I have reasons to envy Mr. Eban as Foreign Minister for many things. But I envy him more for one thing: namely, he will never have to do what I had to do in 1957: to stand before the United Nations and say, we will withdraw. I did it on behalf of the government, but that was not my greatest hour.

So you visualize the secure border as something that is self-enforcing, that is not, in fact, enforced by a signed treaty, but that the border itself enforces?