The Nation: John Dean: The Man with the Scarlet W

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At 33, he sat in the highest councils of Government; at 34, he rocked the Nixon Administration to its foundations; at 35, he faces probable imprisonment, has been disbarred, and hopes for a new career as a writer.

In the 13 months since former White House Counsel John Wesley Dean III testified before the Senate Watergate committee, there have been drastic changes in his lifestyle, philosophy and future ambitions. Last week at his new hillside home in Los Angeles in a remarkably candid interview—the first he has granted in more than a year—Dean discussed the turbulence of his past and the hoped-for serenity of his future with TIME Correspondent Hays Gorey.

Q. Was there ever a major conflict between the Administration and the courts while you were in the White House?

A. Yes—now that you mention it.

The President was prepared to defy the Supreme Court if it ruled against the Amchitka [atomic] blast in 1971. He was going to say: "Pull the trigger" and then explain that he had taken the action because it was vital to the military position of the U.S. vis-a-vis Russia. It was a Saturday—the day of the blast—when the court ruled that the test could be conducted. Everyone was in readiness to act if the ruling had gone the other way.

Q. You've now been questioned by James St. Clair. What was it like?

A. He's a very able lawyer, a decisive man, experienced. But he seemed unaware of many details of Watergate.

And he seems caught up in the White House philosophy that everything can be handled in a p.r. context. I've been surprised at the number of his public statements.

Q. Why didn't you "jump ship" sooner than you did?

A. Well—I guess I would have to say now I didn't have the guts. I went to the President on March 21 in part because I felt sure someone would break —McCord or Hunt or someone—at the sentencing of the Watergate burglars on March 23. I wanted the President to get out ahead. When they sent me to Camp David to write a "report," I made my final decision that I just couldn't live this way any longer. Anything would be better.

Q. So you went to the prosecutors and asked for immunity?

A. No. I had no intention of seeking immunity. I just knew I couldn't go on. My lawyer told me: "You don't have to run into machine guns to get this done." He also told me he was worried that I might find myself in the river with cement blocks tied to my feet.

Q. You didn't go to the prosecutors sooner because...

A. Because I feared the effect on the country and the world. And I wondered if anyone would take my word—a young lawyer—against the President of the United States. I thought, in fact, I could do it in a way that would not involve the President. But I found within a month I could not.

Q. Did anyone ever say no at the White House?

A. They didn't work there very long if they did. Oh, [Clark] Mollenhoff said no, and Pete Peterson did. Neither one could get near the Oval Office. Len Garment said no, in a mild way. Dick Kleindienst said no once. Arthur Burns. And John Connally had to leave because of his recommendations on how to handle Watergate. He just didn't have enough information.

Q. How do you feel about Nixon?