Reading, Writing -- and Iroquois Politics: THOMAS SOBOL

Q. As New York State education commissioner, you have caught a lot of heat for recommending that we emphasize multiculturalism in American history.

A. The heat doesn't surprise me. There is probably no more volatile subject in American political life than race. That doesn't make it any less important that we find the constructive, moderate, middle position on the matter.

Q. What exactly is that position?

A. My goal is that all of us in this society come to know more about one another, partly to live better with one another than we are sometimes now doing. There is no inconsistency between teaching the common democratic values and traditions that unite us and teaching more about our differences. In fact, they're complementary. It's just teaching more of the truth about more of our people to all of our students. Can I give you an example?

Q. Go ahead.

A. About three or four years ago, I was visiting Thomas Jefferson High School in Brooklyn. The school is largely black, a few Hispanic and a few white kids. I sat in on a group of blacks trying to come to grips with the name of the school, Thomas Jefferson. There were some who thought Jefferson was probably one of the greatest Americans; they ought to be very proud to be part of a school that bears his name. Others said, Thomas Jefferson kept slaves. How can you have any pride in yourself as a young black American while being part of a school that bears the name of a slave owner?

The discussion was guided by a very skillful teacher, who eventually got a good many of the kids around to the point that in a way both things are true. The point is that it became possible for those otherwise alienated blacks to feel comfortable with a larger tradition in which they had a role.

Q. One of the criticisms of multiculturalism is that it's a cover-up of the failure of education to help blacks.

A. There's no question we haven't done a very good job educating a lot of black and Hispanic kids. At the same time, I don't pretend that if we just make our educational program a little bit more multicultural, all the problems of black and Hispanic academic achievement are going to disappear. They're not. This isn't the only thing that needs to be done. But it needs to be done. The truth of our history demands it.

Q. Diane Ravitch, the U.S. Assistant Secretary of Education, once said that New York State's curriculum is perhaps the only one that describes the main influences on the U.S. Constitution as the Enlightenment and the Iroquois political system. Why do you teach that?

A. Well, it depends on the way we teach it. It's very clear to me that our Constitution derives from the political traditions and thinking of Western Europe. Now it is a fact, I guess, that the Iroquois nations learned to live compatibly with one another. Whether or not that had any impact on the people who were the framers of the Constitution, I don't know, but I am set to acknowledge its possible influence in part. It makes sense to me not to overemphasize it.

Q. But why teach it at all?

A. Why teach anything that's part of our history if there are only a few people involved? Why would you want not to teach it?

Q. For a number of reasons, including the likelihood that talking about it is not germane to the Constitution.