INSIDE SADDAM'S BRUTAL REGIME

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The flight of Hussein Kamel al-Majid to Jordan last month, along with several relatives, revealed a shocking rift in Iraq's ruling clan. Hussein Kamel is Saddam Hussein's cousin and son-in-law. A true hard-liner, he oversaw Iraq's program to develop weapons of mass destruction and, as he indirectly admits below, was responsible for brutal repression of Shi'ites and Kurds after the Gulf War. In his first major interview with a Western journalist, Hussein Kamel talked to diplomatic correspondent Dean Fischer in Amman. On one matter he was almost certainly dissembling: though he denies it, authoritative sources say he has met with CIA officials since his defection.

TIME: Why did you decide to defect? Hussein Kamel: I was motivated by the interests of the country. I reached the point where I found [criticizing erroneous policies] to be futile. For the past 15 years Iraq has not stopped fighting. It has ended up accumulating debts that will require generations and generations to repay. There are too many executions in our society, too many arrests. Whatever the age of the critic--whether 80 or 15--many people are executed. For these reasons I left.

TIME: How did you manage to leave Baghdad without arousing suspicion?

Hussein Kamel: We left Baghdad at around 8 p.m. on Aug. 7. We said we planned to attend a conference in Bulgaria [and would travel there via Amman], so it was an official motorcade with security. When I arrived at the Iraqi border crossing, they never even asked me for my passport. We arrived in Amman at 3:30 in the morning of Aug. 8. I don't know Amman very well because on previous trips all our arrangements were taken care of by Jordanian protocol. It was rather difficult to reach a hotel. We found a taxi, and I asked somebody from our security detail to get into the taxi and take us to a hotel.

TIME: There have been reports of a shooting in Baghdad involving President Saddam's eldest son Uday [seemingly second in power these days] and Saddam's half brother Watban Ibrahim al-Tikriti.

Hussein Kamel: There was a shooting on the same night we left Baghdad to go to Amman. According to information I have verified, there was a fistfight between Saddam's brother-in-law Luay Talfah and Watban's nephew Nemir Diham. Subsequently Luay told Uday, who was at another party. Uday rushed in and started firing indiscriminately. The host was shot, and also Watban, and two members of the President's security detail. Some Gypsy dancers and other guests were shot. Eight women were killed or wounded. Uday is well known for such behavior. It was late at night, and alcohol had affected him. Such incidents have taken place in the past, and nobody held him accountable.

TIME: There was an earlier incident involving the beating to death of a servant.

Hussein Kamel: On that occasion Uday was also drunk. President Saddam's valet was seated close to Uday at a party. The valet got into an argument with one of Uday's security guards. Uday hit the valet with a club, and the man died.

TIME: Is it true that the President has cracked down on Uday?

Hussein Kamel: No. Uday is still active.

TIME: Can anybody in Iraq dissent from the regime's policies without fear of imprisonment, or torture or death?