Conversation: Thwarted Dreams

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"Ambition has a bad name," says Manhattan psychiatrist Anna Fels, author of Necessary Dreams: Ambition in Women's Changing Lives (Pantheon). The drive to excel and achieve is universal, says Fels, 55, but women often become conflicted about it. Her extensive research documents the reasons. TIME spoke with her:

How would you define ambition?

It really has two components. One is mastery, which is the pleasure everybody takes in learning skills, whether it's cooking or their jobs or golf. The other part is about being recognized or appreciated for those skills within some kind of a community. The recognition part is particularly problematic for women.

Why is recognition withheld from women?

There's mostly an unconscious habit of assuming that what boys, young men and men do is simply more important than what girls do. It's a historical artifact, part of the culture. It occurs from kindergarten right through the work situation.

Do little girls start out with big dreams?

Yes. When I asked women about their earliest ambitions, almost all of them instantly came up with memories. They wanted to be rock stars, famous actresses. One wanted to be a Supreme Court Justice. They had these wonderful, slightly grandiose ambitions when they were little that got dismantled as they got older.

Why are women loath to take credit for their accomplishments?

Linguists like Deborah Tannen have pointed out that girls and women have great difficulty asking for appropriate recognition. It seems to be part of our cultural idea of femininity that women are supposed to be self-effacing about their work. It's striking how often women of accomplishment bend over backward to deny that they are responsible for their achievements. I got a call this week from a woman who had heard Meg Whitman, the CEO of eBay, speak at a conference. The woman said Whitman began her talk with a long disclaimer about her success.

Is having a mentor important?

To work toward a goal you need encouragement at virtually every stage. One strategy for women has been to find a mentor who brings them along. Emily Dickinson, perhaps the most isolated literary genius ever to write, actually was rather aggressive about getting an eminent literary figure to assume this role. Eleanor Roosevelt was lucky enough to have a teacher who took an active role in fostering her intellectual and emotional growth. Many women in business have found bosses who play this role.

You write that some women use therapy as a form of achievement. What do you mean?

The ratio of women to men who go into therapy is 2 to 1. I suspect part of the reason is therapy is one of the few places where women can reflect on their experiences, talk openly and have someone listen and reflect on them.

How has feminism affected women's ambitions?

It has had a tremendous effect on women's ability to be ambitious and achieve things. I think we're not as appreciative as we might be.

You're the mother of a daughter. What's your advice to parents?

Even more than with sons, parents need to keep their eye on their daughters' sense of self and self-esteem. Parents need to be vigilant and find other things in girls' lives that they can be good at and admired for besides sexual attractiveness.