Monday, Feb. 05, 2001

Interview with Amien Rais

Amien Rais seems to be enjoying President Abdurrahman Wahid's torments. If the President is impeached, Rais, who heads the People's Consultative Assembly, would preside over the hearings that could remove him from office. The University of Chicago graduate spoke about Indonesia's troubles with Time East Asia correspondent Tim McGirk and reporter Jason Tedjasukmana. Excerpts:

TIME: What should Wahid do now?
Rais: He should resign. The people no longer trust him. His authority is gone. We are trying hard to think of a way to force him to resign.

TIME: What if the President were to apologize or prove that illicit money never went to his account. Could he survive?
Rais: No. The damage has been done. He has trampled on his oath as a leader. He was not supposed to get a contribution of $2 million from the Sultan of Brunei. He did it very secretly.

TIME: Do you fear a military takeover?
Rais: There is no way for the military to take over the government. I have spoken to the generals and they are committed to establishing democracy in this country.

TIME: Are you afraid Wahid might try to declare a state of emergency so he can dissolve the House of Representatives?
Rais: He did try yesterday (Feb. 1). I got very authentic information. He invited the chief of staff, the chief of the army and others and said that he wanted to declare a kind of emergency or even martial law. And those military generals categorically turned down his wish.

TIME: Do you think Megawati Sukarnoputri is ready to take over?
Rais: So-so.

TIME: Would you like to be President?
Rais: Yes, but not now. Maybe in 2004. If my party can win the hearts of the people and I gain more than 35% of the popular vote I will have confidence to pursue the presidency.

TIME: Is it the corruption scandals that have cost Wahid his popular support?
Rais: Bulogate and Bruneigate are only the tip of the iceberg. The number of innocent people killed during his presidency is higher than the number killed during Habibie's presidency. The number of unemployed is bigger. Also, there is no strong commitment to establish the supremacy of law, including a crackdown on corruption, collusion and nepotism.

TIME: In 1999, you told Time that Indonesia had to support Wahid for President. Are you being hypocritical?
Rais: That is a legitimate question. I supported him and worked very hard with my friends to put him in the presidency. Then he ignored all my advice, kicked out the good people from his cabinet, never listened to good advice. Then he practiced nepotism and corruption. So there is no use in supporting him anymore.