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| CHRISTOPHER MORRIS / VII FOR TIME |
| President Bush speaks with Dickerson, left, Cooper and Gibbs in the Oval Office |
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| Interview With The President |
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On a sunny afternoon last week, President George W. Bush sat down in the Oval Office with White House correspondents Matthew Cooper and John Dickerson and editor at large Nancy Gibbs to talk about Iraq, his second term and how he views his place in history. |
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By MATTHEW COOPER, JOHN F. DICKERSON, NANCY GIBBS and GEORGE W. BUSH |
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Posted Sunday, December 19, 2004
TIME: What kind of turnout are you looking for in the Iraqi elections—50%, 70%?
BUSH: I would hope as many people as possible.
TIME: What does it feel like to have no more re-elections?
BUSH: I've always felt politics would be just a chapter of my life, not my life. And so I don't have any remorse about saying, Oh, gosh, no more campaigns. I say that now. Maybe 10 years from now, when you find me somewhere, I'll be longing for a campaign. I doubt it.
TIME: Sheriff Bush ...
BUSH: Yes, exactly. Some say I've already got it. [Laughter.]
TIME: How was your re-election campaign different from those waged by Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton?
BUSH: Mine was different because the circumstances were different. I had to make it very clear that the foreign policy of this Administration would lead to peace. This was a tough four years for the American people. I know it has been. And I think it's very important for somebody running for office to say that, one, I will confront problems and not pass them on but also that by having confronted problems, that the next four years will be hopefully a more peaceful period of time for people.
TIME: Another thing you did is that you told people what they might not want to hear: "You may not agree with me, but you know where I stand."
BUSH: Well, I guess that's called stubborn. Wasn't that the word they used at some point in time, stubborn? Look, I believe that if you believe something, you've got to stand your ground, particularly in the face of criticism. I think the American people are looking at somebody running for office and they want to know what they believe, why they believe it and do they really believe it. And it's particularly important in these kinds of unsettling times. Take, for example, my wish for the Iraqi elections. I believe they ought to be
on January the 30th, and I've said so, point-blank. Otherwise, if it were vague—"Well, we'll see what it looks like at the time"—you can bet people will find a reason not to do the hard work. I believe strongly when I say something, I generally be-lieve it. Not generally believe it—I believe it. Scratch the generally.
TIME: Another issue you have been out front on is steroids. You talked about it in the State of the Union last year. And, of course, it has become a big deal in the past few weeks.
BUSH: First of all, baseball should be focused on solving the problem before a lot of fans begin to really fall away from the game. I love baseball, and I understand how important the history of baseball is from one generation to the next. I was more worried about the example that major leaguers, adults, were setting for youngsters, who basically said, "Juice up, and you'll make more money." I believe adults have a responsibility to set good examples, particularly when you've got a spotlight on you. And baseball now must get its act cleaned up. And they've heard a warning signal from Senator John McCain that said, "Clean it up in a meaningful way, or we will." My hope is that they do. But I will sign legislation if McCain can get it to my desk.
TIME: Knowing what you know now, do you think more highly or less highly of your predecessors?
BUSH: Of my predecessors? Very interesting. More highly of them all.
TIME: All of them?
BUSH: Well, I would say all of them. I've got a much better appreciation of what they've been through, some more than others. My appreciation for Lincoln has grown immeasurably. He is a President who was a visionary for the good of the country. I've got his painting right there. And he's there because he had this great vision about a United States of America in incredibly difficult times. I have sat here and thought about what it would be like to be the President when brother was fighting brother and cousin killing cousin. And the deep anguish his writings reflected about seeing the country torn asunder. And yet he had a clarity of vision the whole time. He clearly saw what needed to happen about keeping this country united. All the people who serve here serve in different circumstances, but they have the same basic requirement, and that is the capacity to make decisions and know where you want to lead.
TIME: What about Bill Clinton?
BUSH: This is a person who embraced the job and loved it. He took on issues; he took them on with enthusiasm and energy. He loved being the President. That's an admirable trait.
TIME: Some people have said that in making your personnel changes for the second term, you're consolidating power.
BUSH: I'm consolidating power? I've got all the power I need.
TIME: Some say the people you trust are your closest friends, and they will give it to you with the bark off. But nobody in your Administration will talk about any instance in which you got it with the bark off. When have you, and have you listened to them?
BUSH: I can't think of an incident right now, but it happens all the time. Part of my management style is to provoke thought and get people thinking, is to lay something out there. And they'll say, "That's not a good idea, Mr. President" or "You know, I can't believe you said that." McCain is a guy who—we get along well, we agree a lot, and sometimes we don't agree. A lot of my friends are people that don't understand or agree with some of the decisions I've made and question why I made the decision I made.
For more from TIME's interview with President Bush, read the full version
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