ROB REINER
That's the other one that I would have, I would have definitely put in Sydney Portier.
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
And I think that we have a little bit of a problem, in a way, you know, even as we progress through this day, and we go through the various categories is, because such a remarkable thing happened in our country in the sixties, in terms of opening up the idea of who an artist was, uh, and uh, more people got to be seen, who became visible. We have a problem of, when we evaluate a person, are we evaluating because they made a breakthrough, that they were the first black, or the first woman, or the first Asian, or the first Latino? And that always makes our, our situation a little bit more complicated, as we try to recognize people, at a very moment that we know, that we've been able to recognize more kinds of people, after 1965, than we would have, if we were doing this at the turn of the last century.
ROB REINER
Right. But, but, but you make a good point, because we're also talking about what impacts society. And when you talk about the impact players of society, you have to talk about Paul Robeson, you have to talk about Sydney Portier, he was the first black man who was accepted by mainstream audiences, and made it acceptable for, for blacks to be portrayed in movies, in ways that they hadn't been up till that point. So that same thing, when you talk about Jackie Robinson, I mean those impact society in a vast way, so you have to, and Brando, you definitely have to talk about Marlon Brando, because he created the style of acting, we created it, was the Stanislavsky method, but he made it popular. Thanks to Stella Adler and Lee Strassberg, and lots of people who, uh, helped bring that method to America, Stanislavsky, but he made it a part of the...
CHARLIE ROSE
Then let me just throw this question out. Just on sheer talent. Talent. Which may or may not have the impact. Who is the greatest actor of this century?
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
That's a very, very hard question.
CHERYL CROW
Yeah.
NORM PERLSTINE
Lawrence Olivier.
ROB REINER
See, I would say Brando, and I would say Olivier second.
ROBERT HUGHES
But do you know...
CHARLIE ROSE
Why would you say second?
ROB REINER
Those are the arguments I used to have as a kid when we were in, in New York City. Who's better, Mays or Mantle?
CHARLIE ROSE
That's the whole thing.
ROB REINER
You know (Overlapping voices). I, I would say Brando because the body of work that he has put on film, I mean, if you talk about theater, then we're, you know, Olivier, you know, for...
CHARLIE ROSE
We're going to get to theater, so, but between Brando and, and since they both acted in film as well...
ROB REINER
For film then.
CHARLIE ROSE
In film work you put Brando at a...
ROB REINER
I would say Brando.
ROBERT HUGHES
I would put Brando ahead of Olivier in film...
CHARLIE ROSE
Film. (Overlapping voices) So we agree that Brando is the greatest film actor of this century?
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
In America, in the world? Are you talking about the world?
CHARLIE ROSE
In the world. Who would you say? (Overlapping voices)
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
We're talking about the world.
ROB REINER
Okay, so who? We're saying film actor, though. We're saying film actor.
(LAUGHTER)
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
I don't know, I mean, they, we want to think about Sophia Loren, or, or, I, I don't, you know it's in the world. It's such a heavy thing here.
NORM PERLSTINE
I think Brando has obviously, in Street Car, in On the Water Front, in The Godfather, three pieces of work that show his range as an actor and his ability to do different kinds of things, um...
ROB REINER
That's how good he is. You think he was in three pieces of work there. In The Godfather.
NORM PERLSTINE
Yeah.
ROB REINER
Because those three (Overlapping voices).
NORM PERLSTINE
But I think, I think there were a lot of films that he frankly phoned in. I think he is actually honest with his audience when he says, if he had been paid as well to be a street sweeper as to be an actor, he would have been happy being a street swim, sweeper.
ROB REINER
Do you really believe that?
NORM PERLSTINE
Yeah, and I really don't think that there's been...
ROB REINER
Do you really believe it?
CHARLIE ROSE
Why do you believe that?
NORM PERLSTINE
I would put Katharine Hepburn there, someone, four Oscars, a body of work over fifty years...
(APPLAUSE)
NORM PERLSTINE
...and the argument against her would be that she always plays Katharine Hepburn, and I think that, uh, unlike a Brando, and I think that...
ROB REINER
See, that's the argument for her.
NORM PERLSTINE
...that would be the argument for her.
ROB REINER
The argument for that, he plays herself, and elevated the, the status of women...
NORM PERLSTINE
That's exactly right.
ROB REINER
... in the culture.
NORM PERLSTINE
Exactly.
ROB REINER
Absolutely.
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
Is a movie star an art form? And they now, now on Monroe as a, a name that...
ROBERT HUGHES
The art of being a movie star.
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
...is that an art, yeah, the art of being a movie star.
APPLAUSE
CHARLIE ROSE
Yeah. And does that, does that by definition give you impact, I mean...? It, does popularity give you impact, too?
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH
Popularity in perhaps how much you're able to expose about yourself in that popularity.
CHARLIE ROSE
Should we also factor in, when you talk to someone like Brando, or, or ev--, this has been said about a, a number of people, Orson Welles among others, uh, should it be a mark against them, that they did not take huge talent and do more with it? In terms of Brando, I mean, you look at me like I'm crazy, Rob...
ROB REINER
No, no, no.
CHARLIE ROSE
...but the idea of...
ROB REINER
...I, I, I'm trying to assess this question, here.
(LAUGHTER)
