Wahid's Out, Megawati's In

Monday, July 23, 2001

Megawati Sukarnoputri was sworn in as Indonesia's fifth President today (July 23) after the country's lawmakers impeached the nearly blind Abdurrahman Wahid and ousted him from office. Megawati -- who was denied the presidency in 1999 -- is the daughter of the founding father of Indonesia, Sukarno, who ruled the country from 1945 to 1965, when he was toppled in a coup by the then-general Suharto. TIMEasia.com editor Nick Papadopoulos spoke to TIME's East Asia correspondent Tim McGirk on the dramatic developments in Jakarta. Edited excerpts:

Tim, I'm watching Megawati Sukarnoputri being sworn is as the new President of Indonesia inside the parliament building. But what's happening outside? Are you witnessing jubilation on the streets, or violence from the ousted leader's supporters?
Nick, it all seems very calm. There are about 20 buses outside parliament loaded with Wahid supporters, but everyone seems rather listless. They don't seem outraged by what has happened. And there doesn't seem to be any evidence that more of Wahid's supporters are coming in to Jakarta from his base in East Java. Wahid has remained in the presidential palace all day long: he's remained silent and hasn't issued a statement despite the fact that he has been impeached and the People's Consultative Assembly has appointed Megawati as his successor. Her supporters say they will allow him to remain there overnight, but by tomorrow he better clear out.

Wahid has repeatedly claimed that the impeachment case against him was illegal and unconstitutional. Does he have any legal recourse?
At this point everything is a bit fuzzy. But I don't think he has any legal recourse at all. And he doesn't have the military or the police to back him up.

So what is Wahid's fate? His health isn't good?
I imagine that he's just going to have to slink away. And I don't think there will be any immediate charges brought against him.

Is Megawati going to have an easy time ruling Indonesia? She enjoys the support of the people, right?
That's true, yes, but she's going to find it difficult governing. As Vice President, Megawati has shown hardly any aptitude for or interest in solving the affairs of the state, and there are many right now. There are separatist uprisings festering away in Aceh and Irian Jaya, and most of the things she has been saying about the economy, sounds like a repeat of the nationalist rhetoric of her father back in the 1960s. I don't think foreign investors are going to be rushing in to the country just because she is now in power, even though they are probably relieved that the transition up till now has gone very smoothly. I think Megawati also has a lot of rivals from the other political rivals who aren't going to cut her much slack.

How would you describe the new President?
There are some people who say she doesn't want to be President; she wants to be Queen. She is quite shy, doesn't have a commandeering presence, but she does have a sense of herself as being born into office, which comes from being the daughter of Sukarno.

Will Megawati's rise to the top provide a psychological boost to the country?
No I don't think so. Both Wahid and Megawati's supporters have acted on the margins of the constitution. And because the constitution is so vague and fuzzy, there is no way of saying who is right or wrong. They both claim they are right. For the people in the street, they'll be very relieved that the military wasn't called in and used against one side or the other. But I think there is an edginess that it may still happen.

How did this happen? Wahid was meant to be Indonesia's great hope?
Wahid came to power with only about 11% of the seats in the parliament, denying Megawati, who had more votes, her rightful place as President. So he already had that against him. His health has also been failing: he's blindness has worsened. And he didn't listen to his advisors and he certainly didn't listen to Megawati. The separatist and ethnic problems magnified since he took power, there were virtually no major decisions taken on the many reforms that Wahid said he was going to make, and the ex-President changed Cabinet ministers countless times. There hasn't been a sense of continuity or anything beyond his mercurial behavior. There's a sense that Wahid let his people down; but they also don't have that much faith in Megawati.

Megawati enjoys the support of the people, but does she have the support of the military, which has always played a crucial role in Indonesian politics?
She does. The military at this point want to remain off the streets. They don't want to take over, and they are happy to support the person that seems to have the legitimate right to govern the country. Wahid had lost the support of the armed forces, and we saw that by the great display of force they showed outside the presidential palace yesterday afternoon, which was directed more at Wahid than anyone else. But what we're still not sure of is how deep the support for Megawati goes within the police. At the time Wahid tried to sack his national police chief, there were about 150 middle-ranking officers who came out in support for Wahid. So the question is: What action will they now take? What side of the fence will they join?