Interview: Talking to Afghan President Karzai

Afghan President Hamid Karzai

Sean Gallup / Getty

• Share

(6 of 7)

That is because they were illiterate.
So what if they were illiterate? Why not? We had in Helmand three years ago a police chief who was illiterate, and another district chief who was illiterate, and a governor that was not educated in a school, but Helmand was much better then.

Two years ago you had a corrupt governor in Helmand accused by the British of smuggling drugs: Sher Muhammad Akhunzada.
Yes, but do we have more drugs now in Helmand? Or then? Oh, come on, that is the problem. This is all western propaganda against him. That is where things have gone wrong in Afghanistan.

He was found with nearly a ton of heroin in his basement.
So what? Now there are hundreds of tons of heroin in basements across Helmand. Not the governor, but the whole system. So, when Akhunzada was there, all the girls were going to school. Schools were open. Shops were open. Reconstructon was going on, and poppies were three times less than what is being produced today.

So you blame pulling Akhunzada out for the increase in violence and poppy cultivation today?
Helmand was entirely in our hand. The whole province was firmly in our hand. What do we have now?

So you are willing to accept a drug smuggler as long as he keeps a firm grip on the province?
So, let's suppose he was that. First of all, we don't know. These days we are wiser, we don't believe everything that our allies tell us now. Akhunzada was the governor. Drugs were three times less than they are today. The province was in our hands. Schools were running; women's associations were running. Clinics were running. Hospitals were running. Girls and boys were going to school; there was peace. And we removed Akhunzada on the allegation of drug running, and we delivered the province to drug runners, the Taliban, to terrorists, to a threefold increase of drugs and poppy cultivation in the country. To the closing of schools, to women being killed in the street. To complete lawlessness, and complete lack of sovereignty in Helmand for Afghanistan. Which condition is better? What would you do in your country in a situation like that? In other words, a British or an American province would be happier with the first situation or with the second? Ismail Khan in Herat was accused of the same things.

So you are going to let these people, these smugglers...
You have to let Afghanistan determine its own ways. The methods and ways that are developed in offices in the West don't work here. That is the problem. Somebody sits there behind a desk, gets a few reports from English-speaking Afghans and they say, well that is what we want to do in Afghanistan. And then things go down the drain. That is what I am changing now.

So you are willing to allow a criminal to run a province as long as he keeps it under control?
No, who says he is a criminal? That is a wrong allegation from the press, motivated by our foreign allies. That is where things have gone wrong. Motivated. We don't even know what the allegations are. We don't' know if those allegations against Sher Muhammad Akhunzada were truth, or if they were made up to turn Helmand into what it is now.

But if we go back to Ismail Khan, the former warlord and governor of Herat, it is very clear that he was siphoning off customs funds from the border with Iran destined for the central government.
He used that money to rebuild Herat, he did a good job then and he is doing a good job now [as minister of power]. It is not that everything we do is wrong. It is not that everything that our allies are doing is right. They have made mistakes. We did not know then, because we didn't know how decisions were made, but we know now. So we are much more assertive today. Much more demanding, that is why we ask more questions. That is why there is more action. It's because of that experience. Especially Helmand.

You recently replaced Asadullah Khalid of Kandahar because of allegations of corruption...
No, not at all. He was there for three-and-a-half years. It was time for a change. He did a very good job.

The Canadian government accused him of corruption.
Well, they were wrong. When he was leaving Kandahar, the Kandaharis gave him a reception that none other has seen. Sometimes our officials are accused of corruption when they stand for their Afghan interests. When they stand up to our allies, they are accused of corruption. That we know now. In other words, unfortunately, our allies don't like a strong-headed Afghan. That is part of the problem in this country as well.