Strait Talk: The full interview

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TIME: How is that different from a declaration of independence, as you pledged not to do in your "Five No's"?
Chen: Taiwan has already been an independent sovereign country. Currently, Taiwan is already a country, an independent sovereign country. There is of course no question of declaring independence, because it is already a country. This is reality. This is the status quo. There is no doubt. It is not to be questioned whether you admit it or recognize it or not. It is an existing fact. Taiwan has all the attributes of a country. There is no question.

TIME: Mr. President, is the "independent sovereign country" that you just said now different from or contradictory to the "Five No's" in your inaugural speech?
Chen: I said very clearly in my May 20th inaugural speech. According to the Constitution, it is my duty and my responsibility as the leader of the country to defend the sovereignty, dignity, and security of my country and seek the highest welfare for my people. So in my "Five No's" pledge, I said that I would not declare Taiwan's independence. But that does not equate with negating the status quo and the current status of Taiwan as an independent sovereign country. There is no need for an official declaration, because this is an existing fact and is not contradictory.

TIME: O.K. But in the past, your predecessor, for example, was not as blunt as you are now in saying that Taiwan is a sovereign independent country. Do you believe that the status of Taiwan needs to be made clearer or stronger now, because China is getting bigger and stronger? Are you trying to make Taiwan's status clearer and stronger?
Chen: A simple way to describe the status quo of Taiwan is this: First the Republic of China was on mainland China, then the Republic of China came to Taiwan, then the Republic of China was on Taiwan, and now the Republic of China is Taiwan.

TIME: Are you suggesting now that Taiwan is no longer part of the mainland?
Chen: Taiwan has never been part of mainland China. Mainland China is mainland China. Taiwan is Taiwan. Taiwan is part of the Republic of China, but not a part of mainland China. I don't think there should be any confusion in this. Taiwan has never changed. Taiwan has always been here in this place. Taiwan has always existed. It's just that the Republic of China before 1949 was on mainland China, then it came to Taiwan. It existed on Taiwan, and now it is Taiwan. We dare not imagine and should not imagine that the territory of the ROC extends to cover Outer Mongolia or mainland China, because Outer Mongolia is the Republic of Mongolia now and mainland China is governed by the People's Republic of China. This is history; this is fact; and this is the status quo.

TIME: You seem to be seeking greater clarity on Taiwan's status now, while we all know that it's ambiguity that helps secure peace in the strait. Why are you now seeking greater clarity on the verge of an election?
Chen: I think, for the DPP, our stance has always been very clear. We have never been ambiguous. It was the KMT or the previous government that was being ambiguous about Taiwan's status. The past administration from the beginning sought to re-conquer the mainland. They wanted to recover the mainland and have refused to give it up. Even now the KMT still insists on the policy of eventual unification. I think this is very unrealistic. By holding on to such ambiguity, they are deceiving themselves and deceiving others. The ambiguity held by the KMT regime is a sharp contrast to the strategic clarity of the People's Republic of China. They have been very clear in their policy towards Taiwan, that is, to annex and absorb Taiwan, to take back Taiwan, for it to become a local government, to become a part of China. This is not ambiguous. In light of this clear strategy, if we ourselves continue with such ambiguity and continue to deceive ourselves and deceive others, it can only lead to disaster for Taiwan.

China talks of one China; the previous KMT administration also talked of one China. With both sides of the Taiwan Strait singing the same tune of one China, the result was that Taiwan was isolated in the international community, giving China ever better excuses for its attempt to absorb Taiwan, to make Taiwan into a second Hong Kong, and greatly confusing the international community. Because of the past administration's goal of unification under the advocacy of one China, it is very difficult for Taiwan to clearly explain wherein its sovereignty lies. Without Taiwan's sovereignty, it is no wonder that the international community is confused about whether Taiwan is a nation or not, and even thinks that Taiwan is not a nation because of the insistence by past governments on both sides of the Strait on the "one China" principle. Internationally, the so-called one China usually refers to the People's Republic of China, which regards Taiwan as a renegade province. This is a grave that Taiwan has dug for itself. What we have to understand, therefore, is that to continue with such ambiguous strategy, in which Taiwan has no sovereignty, will lead us to our greatest crisis.

TIME: But some things you say and some things you do provoke Beijing. Is that wise or necessary?
Chen: I think that even if Taiwan were to surrender, they [the PRC] would still say that we are not sincere enough. We must walk our own way, walk the right way, and walk the way that we ought to walk. We must not continue to deceive ourselves or deceive others; otherwise, how are we going to educate our next generation, how are we going to make the world understand the differences between Taiwan and China. One ironic thing is that, although the People's Republic of China has never recognized the existence of the Republic of China, it is nevertheless afraid that the ROC will change its official name. Is this not self-contradictory? What China most fears is Taiwan's democracy. Taiwan's democracy poses the biggest threat and challenge to China. Therefore, they oppose Taiwan's democracy, and oppose Taiwan's referendum.

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